Has anyone got a source on how one should calculate the length of a river? OK you have to define the start (that is hard enough), but then the end is difficult. My own web search shows that you should measure it to the mouth. However that leaves the question of the Estuary as an open one. Does the mouth start at a certain concentration of brine? Maybe it is the highest point of tidal waters? To illustrate the problem, the River Shannon is the longer river in Britain and Ireland if you include the estuary, but a fresh water measure gives that honour to the River Severn. Now you have no idea how much energy is going into this and I had a bad day yesterday (too much jet lag not enough coffee) and got my citations mixed up (the ultimate sin). So if anyone can help with a definitive reference to something on how you do this (my own web searches have failed) I would appreciate it.
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Comments (4)
Dave, this may be slightly tangential......I remember having a discussion with a colleague about how to measure the coast line of Britain. We came to the conclusion that it was.....infinite! Why? Well, imagine that Britain is a simple triangle (lop off Wales for the time being...). Then measure the sides of that triangle - fine. Now, start to add in more angles to reflect the true coastline - and it becomes longer.....and the more detailed you go with your measurement, the longer the coastline becomes.
In principle, I am thinking that the same applies to a meandering river....the length depends on the scale of measurement.
See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_Long_Is_the_Coast_of_Britain%3F_Statistical_Self-Similarity_and_Fractional_Dimension
Posted by David Cronshaw | August 3, 2008 10:57 AM
Posted on August 3, 2008 10:57
David (Cronshaw) -
But are you comfortable enough with Zeno's paradox to stand in front of someone pointing a gun at you and pointing the trigger? :-)
- Keith
Posted by Keith De La Rue | August 3, 2008 11:29 AM
Posted on August 3, 2008 11:29
But are you comfortable enough with Zeno's paradox to stand in front of someone pointing a gun at you and pointing the trigger? :-)
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....well, granted that could present me with an intractable problem. I would need a bit more context to be able to answer your question, as it does present some complexities.
Posted by David Cronshaw | August 3, 2008 12:32 PM
Posted on August 3, 2008 12:32
Dave
Your stance must always be that mouths of rivers and estuaries are complex (and in fact abstract inventions) and vary so considerably that linear measurement from a similar fixed boundary on all rivers is impossible.
However the best lead I can find comes from New South Wales http://www.dnr.nsw.gov.au/estuaries/factsheets/physical/limits.shtml
and states
"we find that In hydraulic terms, the downstream boundary of an estuary can be considered as the location where any change in bottom topography has no substantial effect upon tidal behaviour within the estuary.” But if you can't find that boundary "a convenient geographical location is usually selected as the downstream limit of the estuary"
You win some, you lose some.
Cheers, Ron
Posted by Ron Donaldson | August 7, 2008 12:02 AM
Posted on August 7, 2008 00:02