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like being savaged by a dead sheep

I thought about using Jerry bites back as the title to this post, with some reference to gums, however a phrase from British Parliamentary History (June 1998 the pugnacious Denis Healey on the mild mannered and ineffective Geoffrey Howe) seemed more appropriate. It's up there as a put down with the much used ... having a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent and Churchill's famous response to if you were my husband I'd put poison in your tea from Lady Astor, to wit: ... and if I were your husband I'd drink it.

Jerry, in the now closed and protected forum of AOK, decided that my earlier blog entitled him to publish private correspondence, which is fair enough. However (and this is classic) he chose to moderate the exchange by selective publication! For the sake of completeness I reproduce it below, along with his explanation of my banning to AOK; sent to me by several members of the AOK.

Now I did think about just letting this go. However I think Jerry's actions illustrate one of the issues of listservs v blogs and also demonstrate both the danger, and the impracticability of censorship. So its worth using this case to illustrate some of those points by getting it some PR.

Some comments and highlights from the full exchange:

  1. It's interesting that Jerry, although he claims to be a specialist journalist in knowledge management, is unaware of what is happening with social computing. You can't close down a conversation or silence someone any more. Patrick Lamb makes this point with his customary eloquence in a blog on AOK and his withdrawal.
  2. Jerry says that he is defending the freedom of the group from anarchy, which he defines as challenging his curtailment of the freedom of another member of the group
  3. One phrase stands our from Jerry's exchange with me, he says On behalf of the membership as a whole I have taken responsibility for managing my own group. Moderation of individuals will happen when I believe it is in the best interest of AOK as a whole. Notice the use if I and my, no question of the group having any rights. Jerry really does think he knows best and is coupling paternalism with censorship.
So for those interested I reproduce the full correspondence below. One of the points I make (but it may be a bit obscure so I expand on it here) is that Jerry's sensitivity seems to be partly linked to uncritical case studies he is writing on KM at the moment for ARK . These are then being republished in expensive volumes along with the content he gleans from AOK exchanges. In the case studies he generally takes whatever description he is given by his interview subject without probing or asking the hard questions. In two cases, including that which provoked the exchange which led to my being banned, he brought that person on to a forum as a "star" and then reacted very badly when the group asked the hard questions that he should have in the original interview.

Now I promise to get back to some more serious matters later. Paula in her reply to my earlier posting stimulated me to think about how Existentialism with its emphasis on choices and the consequences of choices has much to teach us in social computing. If I get a series of tasks complete today expect that later on, or early tomorrow. For the moment Jerry has made a choice, to censor his discussion group.

This is what Jerry published (with formatting from me but no censorship)

June 25, 2007 12:01:30 AM EDT
Hi Everyone.
As you know Dave Snowden has aired our linen on his website which releases me to share with you some back channel correspondence between the two of us which will show the lead-up to his action. You can make up your own mind, but in my mind we--and I mean the "we" of AOK--cannot be ruled by threat and intimidation. And we cannot be drawn down to a level that does not become us.AOK will continue to be a safe community where freedom rules . . .
except where anarchists threaten. The end.

ORIGINAL Messages:
On June 22, 2007 10:37:05 PM EDT Snowden wrote:
Excerpt: Post to Jack Ring
If Jerry is now back into selective moderation then you will be able to avoid my style of debate hereafter as it will not be present

On 22 Jun 2007, at 01:25, Jerry Ash wrote:
Dave. If I have put anyone on "moderated" you'll find it out from that person or deduce it in some other way. I consider that information private -- a matter between me and the person. The list otherwise continues unmoderated. I can say this. I have not made decisions today based on this one incident but on patterns, both recent and historic. On behalf of the membership as a whole I have taken responsibility for managing my own group. Moderation of individuals will happen when I believe it is in the best interest of AOK as a whole.
If that makes AOK untenable to you, then I am very very sad. And, Dave, I have deeply appreciated your friendship and will continue to carry my best thoughts for you. Perhaps we can continue to be friends outside of AOK.
Jerry

On June 22, 2007 10:30:06 PM EDT, Dave Snowden wrote:
You are wrong Jerry. Valdis did nothing to justify you taking that action.
I suggest you think about it for a day or so - if that is your decision then I will withdraw and state my reasons both in the group (you may wish to censor them) and on the blog. I will suggest to others that they do the same. I am afraid I am no longer prepared to tolerate censorship and paternalism and have resolved to take an active stance against it.
I would regret this, I have actively promoted AOK since you took moderation away, and been prepared to tolerate republication of material by ARK at what I consider an excessive price.
Dave Snowden

On June 22, 2007 11:16:25 PM EDT Jerry Ash wrote:
Dave.
I have removed you from the list.
Jerry

On June 23, 2007 5:05:57 AM EDT Dave Snowden wrote:
As I recall I didn't ask you to do that .....
Dave Snowden

On June 23, 2007 8:57:23 AM EDT Jerry Ash wrote:
Dave.
Yes, but I'm no fool. When you threaten to do as much harm as you can to AOK it makes no sense to let you use my list to do it.

And then we have the missing response, not published by Jerry:

On 23 June 2007 14:14:56 BDT Dave Snowden wrote
You do over react Jerry, you did to Valdis, you are now to me. You also seem to have a tendency to misread (I reference many past incidents) material in a somewhat naive way and to over react without thinking. I suspect your original post to Valdis (which was fairly incoherent) was sent quickly and possibly late at night.
I fully intend to protest (and fairly publicly) the way in which you are doing harm to AOK by a paternalistic attempt at control - on the blog and probably at the ARK KM event in a couple of weeks time. Your somewhat arbitrary reaction has probably intensified that protest. Don't worry too much, the tenor is going to be one of regret that you were unable to handle debate and seem to want to hasten the demise of KM by allowing platitudes to go uncriticised.
AOK was a great idea and concept. It had potential for further growth and was starting to open up a bit. Your attack on Validis was a retrograde step and as a long term member of the community I think I am entitled to defend someone when they are unreasonably attacked. Especially as I have been actively promoting it since you took off the moderation and providing you with praise for doing so. I guess I am feeling a little betrayed in that. I am also entitled to discuss within the group your arbitrary & arrogant assertion of authority without you cutting our any contradictory views to your own.
Now I can see that you might identify AOK with your self, and more specifically be over sensitive of couple of mistakes in the moderators you have brought on - I think you may have been a little seduced in the interviews you conducted with them and some journalistic objectivity and criticism would have helped.
You have chosen to avoid that debate within AOK which is a pity. I am afraid I think it makes you a fool

As you can see my overall tone (I think) is one of regret at the loss of AOK to paternalism. I see from Jerry that in September he has lined up a team of Etienne Wenger, John Smith and Nancy White. I am working with Etienne at KM Australia in July and have had several exchanges with Nancy, some in harmony some in disagreement. and John's blog is in my RSS feed. When they do engage with AOK I will miss the discussion. They on the other hand will be ensured of some protection from dangerous anarchy. Knowing them I doubt if they would have needed Jerry's protection in that respect.

Comments (6)

Dave,

Terribly sorry to see the brouhaha at AOK break out. Frankly, I thought this would be a likely outcome when you first suggested to Jerry that he shift with the times and opt for an unmoderated listserv (as you like to call them).

I think you have sparked a text-book example of the social meltdown that occurs in communities of many types. It doesn't really matter what one says, it only matters what one hears and responds too. (Where does that fit in with Tanaka's nostrum?)

Anyway you seem really "pissed". Jerry seems really "pissed" and "hurt." Steve -the last he was heard from, seemed "embarassed" and "chastened." I don't know if any of these "outcomes" are optimal in KM terms. Understandable, yes. Optimal, no. Certainly damaging to the number and diversity of active nodes in the global KM meta-network. Of course, in the long run, that can be a good thing as the system restabilizes itself and the nodes make new connections. But I wouldn't want it to go unstated in your forum, I think many of us have been well served by AOK over the years, and I hope many more people will have the opportunity to test their mettle there (a element of that climate largely attributable to your presense in it). I also hope Jerry will get over the tiff, reconsider his decision to resume moderation (except where it may be legally required)and let a thousand flowers blossom. (I also don't know that public apologies anywhere, by anyone, are called for. Lord knows, just 'dropping it' has saved my marriage a million times.

I'm not"pissed" David so much as disappointed. I never expected Jerry to unmoderate, so when he did I acknowledged his willingness allow his baby to grow up and make its own way in the world.

Then he attacked Valdis in what I thought was an unfair way and I simply entered to defend a friend. I also specifically suggested that Jerry could overcome the problem by declaring for each "star" if they were to subject to robust criticism or if they were a someone prepared to share experiences, but in a purely supporitive way.

Jerry ignored that and proceeded to moderate Valdis. I wrote to him off line and said think about this for a day or so, if you really mean to do it then I am going to withdraw, and do so very publically. I had put a lot of my own reputation behind AOK as an unmoderated organisation and felt badly betrayed by Jerry's paternalism.

Jerry's response, in less than an hour was to ban me and remove all access to the list. There are various words for that sort of behaviour, none of them nice.

To be honest I am not sure what I would do if Jerry unbanned me and removed moderation from Valdis (he would have to do both). It may be time to move on from AOK for a lot of us (the off line support has been good and plans are underway to create a new forum where robust criticism will be allowed. I am open however, I would not want to be ungracious and I see no point in apologies from anyone. What matters is an open unmoderated list with some controls on obscenity etc (legal issues)

Dave,what you say makes perfect sense to me. I did take the time to re-read the "Sigh" thread in sequence, which only underscores some of the limitations of discontinous conversation. I think the whole thing ran off the track. Whether it can be righted or not, I have no idea. Keep an open mind (as I know you will) and if there's value for you there I hope you'll re-engage, so I can get my Snowden fix wherever I go. -dlh

An interesting debate here between Nancy White, who to my mind attempts to avoid the real issue, and Patrick Lambe who gets to the heart of it.

Hey, Dave. I'm going to follow one of my rules. I'm waiting a day to respond! Maybe then I will have a better understanding of what ELSE I'm avoiding. ;-)

Waving

N

Sounds a good idea Nancy - although its a pity Jerry did not adopt the same policy when I suggested I suggest you think about it for a day or so - if that is your decision then I will withdraw. It took him 45 minutes to exercise power and cast me into the outermost darkness ....

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