I can't say I'm surprised. I've been lurking at AOK for quite a while and found this most recent tempest in a teapot of a piece with why I elect to lurk in the few listservs I still frequent.

I suppose that listservs filled a purpose and they do seem to work in a few limited settings. But with the availability of blogs, their negatives seem to outweigh their positives.

Yeah, that spark sure lit a large explosion...

My family is from Latvia where they survived a recent history of supressed speech and other mistreatment. If they survived the Soviets, then Jerry will be no porblem. Afterall, Uncle Jerry is no Uncle Joe. ;-)

And you didn't even have to stage a sit-in Dave... "tempest in a teapot" is an apt description, but being adults in a common enterprise we're supposed to be able to rise above those. I haven't been especially active on AOK since I joined, though I've learned a lot from the discussions there - before it was unmoderated - while it was edited - the tone was simply too artificial for my taste. After moderation was removed (half-heartedly, I felt) the list took a breather before working itself up to its first real test of maturity. It's now completely clear that this the community, such as it is, is not going to be allowed to do that. Jerry is still acting as the "owner-operator". That's not my cup of tea, so I've withdrawn from the list (not that I'll be missed).

Jim's last comment makes me wonder: does the availability of blogs loosen the constraints on forums, the fact that we have more channels for interaction loosen the ties that might have bound us for longer to list-serves we were uncomfortable with - and hence make those list serves more unruly than in the past?

Dave,

Sorry to hear that you were banned from AOK. I'm sure you already have my post on the subject. Who knows? It may get me banned for the second time.

Btw, who are the American Taliban at ISCE?

Best,

Joe

Thanks Joe, and yes I got the copy
I think the company of the banned is probably a better more interesting group to be in.

The supporter of the American Taliband on ISCE is Jon Bennett

Dave --

Thanks again.

AOK is another hopping farce. I withdrew a long time ago. It is populated, run by cantankerous, egocentric geezers. They behave like sniffling, hypersensitive sisses. AOK is a sham, a shame and shameful.

You are FAR better off here on your well respected, well commented blog. Listservs like ActKM & AOK, and their arrogant moderators are moving fast and with confidence down the road to oblivion.

-j
ID: http://xri.net/=jheuristic

Hmm. Interesting. Ever since you first started publicly discussing the relative 'knowledge' usefulness of listservs on this blog (not too long ago) I have noted a few things which are, obviously entirely my opinion only as I am not a core player in the circles you move in:

1. an outwardly spreading idea ripple of influence encouraging people to think 'hmm Dave's anti-listservs and their tendency to consensus I'm going to be all tough too' (although forgive me if the fluffy bunny thread's (for one example) appearance was entirely coincidental, I felt a sea change in listserv land; people getting more anti-consensus and swaggering more than before). I have a theory about babe the sheep pig and all this, but another day.

2. As a 'facilitator' of some groups, I can say that your path to the door was already opening when you started discussing it (see #1); this was coming then; you wanted out really, but were giving it a noble final go. Having been threatened (with lawyers, the geneva convention, human rights etc.) by the more fringe characters as they spiral out of the community's core (nothing to do with you), it is clear to the 'facilitator when someone is on their way out; the trick is to how to surf this moment so that all involved remain on speaking terms.

Interesting view Ed. Some points

1. I didn't observe the ripple you mention in the listservs. We did see a troll (the Frank) in ActKM but that has happened before. AOK was going along at is normal pace. While it would be nice to think one had that sort of influence I don't think I do
2. Being concerned about bland consensus is not the same thing as wanting belligerence. Although some people confuse socratic questioning with belligerence; often because they have not thought through their views and find the questions difficult
3. I would be careful about imputing motives such as you wanted out really when there is no evidence to support it. I was in fact actively promoting AOK at the time that Uncle Jerry threw his rattle out of the pram. Your facilitator judgment call would have been badly out in that case. If you read the posts my view is that listservs have a place in this connected world, but consensus and moderation may kill them in terms of knowledge creation and importance
4. However I am pretty sure that several participants in AOK whose ideas have been subject to test through questioning welcomed the departure of myself, Valdis, Patrick, Bob and others (some good KM names there which should be a message to Jerry)
5. As far as I know everyone involved is still on speaking terms;Jerry and I are chatting off line, but he will not move on his right to censor. Like most paternalists he is well motivated and really does believe he knows best. The problem is, if you don't let your children grow up then either end up dependent on you for life, or they become serial killers.